picopunk said:

Just watched zeitgeist addendum, really enjoyed it but then I decided to do some of my own research and came across an article which basically rips apart both movies. Thought it might be of interest for people to gain a more balanced perspective.

http://conspiracyscience.com/a…..-addendum/

i personally absolutely agree that further reading is always required before forming a full perspective on a subject.
HOWEVER, i am immediately put off this particular site by this page : http://conspiracyscience.com/a…..eist/cost/
While I would never consider myself smart enough, or with enough time or energy, to argue other points on the site, that particular page strikes me as immature, and deliberately and arrogantly ignorant of even the most basic aspects of costs vs. profit in a project such as the Zetgeist movies.

Anyone that willing to twist the facts so blatantly to suit their own argument cannot, in my opinion, be trusted to not be doing the same in other, more important, aspects of the debate.

just sayin', like.

Post edited 4:52 pm – January 2, 2011 by Rou

There are many 'debunking sites' but as Greggggg points out Peter Joseph has gone through every single possible point that can be brought up against the movement and absolutely destroyed it. 

I would urge anyone to listen back to the podcasts Peter's done here -

http://itunes.apple.com/podcas…..d334102952

And watch the lectures given by himself and Jacque Fresco here - 

http://www.thezeitgeistmovemen…..mid=100093

spacefoetus said:

I admire the moral ideas and principles behind the Zeitgeist Movement- fairness, equality, removal of corruption and the ending of global conflict. These are all brilliant things, and kudos to the supporters of Zeitgeist for trying to uphold and enact these values- you're certainly doing a lot more on that front than I personally am.

 

Having said that I just can't buy what Zeitgeist is trying to sell. I like their values taken abstractly, but its the specific ideas and theories that I can't take seriously. Now, I have not thoroughly examined the claims made by the Peter Joseph etc. on certain topics, eg. their version of the 9/11 conspiracy theory, however I have got a massive interest in religion, especially Christianity. And the very first part of the very first Zeitgeist movie- "The Greatest Story Ever Told" is about the meaning and origin of Christianity. And literally neally every single "fact" the narrator mentions is false.

 

I can't stress this enough- its not the case that the movie errs on a few random scraps of controversial historical data- nearly literally EVERYTHING in that one section is wrong, or insignificant, or in a few cases slightly manipulative.

 

Zeitgeist addendum has provided no retraction to the errors contained in part 1. As far as I know, Peter Joseph or anyone in the Zeitgeist movement hasn't either.

 

So my logic is this- I know to a point of near certainty that one huge aspect of Zeitgeist is totally and outragiously wrong. So far, despite being refuted and rebutted, no-one involved in the project has corrected or retracted these massive errors. So why should I believe anything else they have to say?

 

This is just a personal stumbling block and I don't expect it to sway anyone else away from Zeitgeist- I'm merely just wondering how anyone else copes with this situation, or if perhaps I have missed any retractions from Joseph etc. Seeing how Zeitgeist is the mian inspiration behind Shikari's amazing music, I doubt it'd be in my interest to make them disbelieve it :)

But what gives you the right to simply state that much of what Peter states in his first film is 'wrong'?

Obviously different historians tell different stories and many accounts end up being silenced and lost depending on who's in power at the time

Religion itself of course has 'fiddled' with history many times.

I did have this similar sort of problem with parts of the more 'conspiratorial' side of the first documentary film, but regardless I believe all the idea's of the Zeitgeist Movement (Something established only as an activist arm of the film Zeitgeist Addendum) to be the best current alternative route for society as a whole. 

I think if you listened back to all the podcasts (but especially the 09/9/2009 radio show discussing the barrage of 'debunking' both movies but has a whole section on religious questions) it wouldn't take you long to then look past anything you've been 'taught' or been given reason to believe before.

I already whole-heartedly believe Religion to be a man-made notion devised for personal solace (however intangible) which is abused as a power to control masses.

So whether he used the exact version of History that i believe personally, in order to state his negativity towards Religion, doesn't bother me at all.

I simply search for the most sane way for humanity to progress. And that is within the ideas of Jacque Fresco and the Zeitgeist Movement. :)

Ignore all the conspiracy aspects of the Zeitgeist movies and focus on what Jacque Fresco proposes.

Imagine a world without War, Poverty, Misery or Money. 

Imagine a world where all people work together in a spirit of cooperation and not competition.  Imagine this safer, saner world and you are closer to understanding what the Zeitgeist Movement is about.

Our present social systems are built upon fundamentals that produce War, Poverty, Murder, Crime, Violence, Compromised Healthcare, Media Monopoly, Corporate Corruption and INDIFFERENCE for the Environment, Greed, Apathetic Self Interest and DESENTISATION from others SUFFERING, Obsolete and Archaic Political Systems based on subjective opinion (guesswork) and not on Scientific and Empirical Certainty.

It's abundantly clear that we need to adapt our thinking because it will definitely be to our collective detriment if we do not.  If we carry on so carelessly and wastefully into the future, our future generations will pay the price for our mistakes.

Can YOU change? Yes, you can.  You can change.  Everyone can change.  We can change together and start a new world.

Imagine.

Post edited 10:38 pm – January 13, 2011 by Mial

Beesh said:

Ignore all the conspiracy aspects of the Zeitgeist movies and focus on what Jacque Fresco proposes.

The theory behind The Zeitgeist Movement is brilliant, but don't forget that the masses WILL focus on the conspiracy – probably to an extent that if TZM got into the media spotlight it would be mainly known for them, and would be regarded on a similar level to scientology. Now I don't condone the current sham of a political system or am blind to the faults of the attitude of society but for any political ideals to have any major influence they need to DISTANCE themselves from the kind of content at the start of the first zeitgiest movie – I don't think  the denying christianity or any religion actually gives anything to the morals of the movement anyway – it seems out of place. All it did was make probably quite a large proportion of viewers turn off before anything of relevance was put forward.

If anyone is interested I think religion is artifical – typical of human nature. We always love to think there is a higher power protecting us, for comfort.

Rou said:

There are many 'debunking sites' but as Greggggg points out Peter Joseph has gone through every single possible point that can be brought up against the movement and absolutely destroyed it. 

I would urge anyone to listen back to the podcasts Peter's done here -

http://itunes.apple.com/podcas…..d334102952

 

And watch the lectures given by himself and Jacque Fresco here - 

http://www.thezeitgeistmovemen…..mid=100093

 

yes man peter joseph is the best actually gives me hope for humanity with him and jacques fresco leading the movement, been behind zeitgeist and peter joseph for a long time as well as jacques fresco and the venus project. thanks to those guys, you and the band and we may actually get some issues put out on the table for our generation to realize what state the world is in. ive watched all the films and i love every bit of them really excited for this new one, also for anyone that hasnt heard of the venus project its something really great to look into this guy jacques fresco has some great ideas and i think they should be heard worldwide.

           I personally dont see why you would "ignore" all the conspiracy stuff at all…It is obvious that The Zeitgeist Movement has strayed away from the whole conspiracy thing, and is now focusing on moving forward out of the current social situation, and focusing mostly on the future of mankind which i am 100% in support of. After watching the the whole first movie (probably over three times now) The evidence against the "official" statement strongly overpowers the official word..but like someone else said its not something that should be dwelled on, but certainly not ignored! Whats important now is infact "Moving Foward". Still waiting to see the movie. Thought it was supposed to be released saturday but later found out only for screenings, bummer.